It got to the point where at first I'm thinking, you know what, if I get a lot of guys working for me,
I make a lot of money, I'm going to buy a nice range over and that,
my mrs can get a pass, we can chill out, we can do this,
and you think that's what you want to do with your life when you're younger,
the media makes it look like that, social media does,
and I think I got sucked into that part a bit, but I think reality is,
I'm a simple man, me.
I'm a simple man, I like having a nice truck, I like having nice tools
and going nice places with mrs and that, but that's all I really want,
I don't really care what anyone else thinks.
Good evening, Trial Talk and welcome to today's live stream with myself,
Stu Roberts, founder of Trial Talk, and soon to bring on this evening's guest, Joel Cook.
Now, I want to give Joel a little bit of a big up, a bit of an intro,
because obviously anyone that's been on Trial Talk over the last two years,
you're going to know who Joel is, everybody knows who Joel is,
me and Marcus have just been down to Halifax, where we did a bit of corksal training,
they all knew Joel down there, seems wherever you go, everyone knows who Joel Cook is,
but if you're new to the game or you're new to Trial Talk,
you might not know who he is.
Joel Cook's a plasterer based in Leeds, he runs his plastering business there,
Rendervate, and he's also got his YouTube channel of the same name guys, Rendervate.
So it's going to be a really, really good guest to have on this evening.
Now, I've named this podcast Rising Falling and Bouncing Back,
and in a nutshell, that's pretty much what Joel did.
So from a very, very young age, he started off like we all did,
you come out at your time and you went working for yourself,
but he actually grew his first business, Cook Plastering, he grew it,
well, it blew up basically, and he ended up pricing up work,
tendering in the region of £1.4 million, guys, that's how big Joel's first business got to.
So it's going to be an interesting guest to have on and talk about why,
growing your business like that and blowing it up the way you did isn't always a positive thing,
and he's going to talk about some of the pitfalls and some of the dangers in doing so.
So some of the topics we're going to touch on, there is early days in plastering,
how we grew his business, we're going to talk about some of the challenges
and some of the prejudices that he might have faced growing up,
and then how he changed lanes, so he switched things up and decided to focus on the spray rendering.
So we'll talk about that and also his coaching that he had,
which has clearly helped him in his business life.
Some of the pros and cons of self-employment, so we'll talk about that,
we'll talk about his YouTube channel, and we'll ask Joel what his favourite game changer is as well.
It could be a new plastering tool or new material, and then his future plans.
And we'll try to squeeze in some of the questions that you guys might have as well for Joel at the end.
So bear with us and we'll get answering any questions that you've got.
But without further ado guys, let's bring on the man himself, the big dog Mr Joel Cook.
Joel, how are you pal?
I'm good, you're alright, that was a nice introduction that minute.
Sweet mate, now I'll touch there on some of the stuff you've been up to from a very young age.
Your first business, cut plastering, how you were able to rob it the way you did,
tendering for jobs up to 1.4 million quid.
Now to the average spread, your average bread and butter sole trader spread,
them numbers just blow your head, you think hang on a minute, he's started off like me,
he come out of his time, plastering and then he's blew this business up, how did he do it?
So everyone's keen to know how you did it.
But before you sort of tell us about that journey, why plastering?
Like what made you think to yourself, I'm going to become a spread?
Was any family members a spread or not?
No one in my family is even a trades person, no one at all.
So it was just one of them things I take the truth out of me, I went to school with him,
I grew up with him and it was just one of them, just a young guy, I didn't have a clue what I wanted to do.
Obviously didn't make it as a professional footballer, so I was left with like, what should I do here?
So that's what I mean mates, I said, what are you doing at college and that?
And he went, I'm doing plastering, I thought plastering, what's that?
I didn't even know what it was.
Then I figured it out and there should be some bits and that.
And anyway, I didn't do anything with it for a couple of years.
And I went down south for a bit and then literally I just thought, you know what?
I'm going to get into plastering, I'm going to do that.
And then there were a course, luckily enough, there were our lived in Essex.
And I went there and I did, it was basically a two week course mate, that's what it was.
Oh, okay.
Did you take to it like a duck to water?
As soon as you picked the Hawking Trial up, was it like, yeah, this is what I'm going to do?
Or was it a struggle or did it come natural to you?
Do you know what mate, I'll be honest with you, I'm pretty handy.
I can do a lot of things, but I'll be honest, the first time I started it, I thought, I'm flipping it.
This is hard work.
Was it all over the floor?
Oh mate, it was in my face, it was dropping on my head, on my shoulder and my eye.
It was just like, oh my God mate.
But literally, I started, I reckon by the end of the second week, I could put on a ceiling, a small ceiling and trowel it up.
And that, okay, do you know what I mean?
But yeah, that was it mate.
That's how I initially got into it.
A course called Gold Trowel, it was called.
I've heard of them.
Yeah, they, London, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I've heard good things about Gold Trowel.
So how did you go from, like someone that hasn't got a clue about plastering, can barely get it off the hook, to then growing a business that's tendering for jobs in the region of 1.4 million quid.
What did that journey look like?
Did it start off with just you and the labourer and then it built from there?
Or was it you just jumped in and took loads of lads on?
And how did you manage to do it?
All right, cool.
So before, before all of that, I actually worked for someone in Leeds called John Rodriguez and I blagged my first job with him.
I blagged it.
Like I rang around everyone in Leeds telling them, yeah, my plasterer, can I come work with you?
And they all said no.
And then what happened with this guy, my sister, my niece actually went to school with his brother's son.
And she got into him and said, yeah, he's a plastering brother.
And your brother got a firm and all this lot.
Anyway, guys number from it.
And I just didn't stop plastering him because he actually was the only person who said, yeah, I'll get you.
We're going a couple of weeks and I thought, yes, I'm on here and the black dates and yeah, I can do it.
Yeah, I can do it.
I got to a job first day over there.
It was absolutely shambolic had to do with bathroom and I pulled all tools out that I was brand new and all that.
No brand new boots as well.
Yeah, I'm pulling it all out everything.
The bathroom work, we're like a tiny bathroom and I'm pulling Ligabond out and everything like that.
And he was like looking at me like that and I thought, he's sussed me out.
Yeah, I don't know.
Anyway, you come back at the end of the day and he just looked at me and I've done like one wall bonded and the floor would pad.
He had it.
Well, that's bad.
Me, he just looked at me and I thought, no, he's going to carry on.
And he just started laughing.
No, I feel that.
Anyway, because I'm right here for having balls.
Right.
Coming here.
Yeah, yeah.
He just said, look, I tell you what, yeah, you've got a van because I had a van and I had my own van.
I had all the tools and invested basically all the money I had into getting a van and tools and five grand at what in total what I'd spent.
And yeah, he's gone like that.
He's gone.
You've got everything because listen, I'll give you a chance.
It's like you can come and do some labor and then work with guys and and he just like to me.
I was just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And he went, I haven't told you how much I'm going to pay.
And I went, just yeah, I'll do it.
And he went like, yeah, you went 50 quid a day.
I went, mate, deal.
Because you're just just hungry for the experience.
Mate, I knew that I wanted to do it, but I didn't quite know until I got into it properly.
When I got into it, like working with guys and I could see what they were doing, like skimming rooms and ceilings and that.
I just thought, yeah, this is this is me.
This and yeah, yeah, that's how I started.
That's how I started.
I worked for him for seven years in total.
Was it was a was a one lot gentleman in particular that took you into their wing and, you know, taught your proper?
Or did you just learn off all these different spreads at this lad?
I'd.
Yeah, all the different ones.
So when I first started, it were mainly me and the couple of me and probably five guys he had working for him.
Yeah.
Right.
So it was just mainly them.
And then after that, his company grew.
His company grew and he got bigger.
He had like 16, 17 guys at one time.
So I was like working with all different ones and doing all different types of jobs.
So I was blessed.
I tried everything.
I got to do everything.
So, you know, I mean, and I did learn quite quick, you know, I mean, so I was good.
So this guy that you were working for, did he sort of like inspire you to think he's built this team of 17 up or whatever.
It is.
I'm going to do the same thing.
Is that how you got the idea to do it?
No, not really because to say the truth, it were like when I looked at when I looked at his business, like him as a person, right?
And how he was is great.
You know what I mean?
His is that Colpepe, old Spanish man, couldn't speak a word of English or all the dig with us.
Like you could swear words.
All he said that's so in fact, you understand.
I love them.
You know what I mean?
I was grateful for what they've done for me.
His business wants something that I would have wanted to do because it was all council work and I want the best.
You know what I mean?
So, but, you know, I think for me learning like that was possibly the worst part of Placemune.
You could probably get working in them type of houses.
Yeah, I agree.
But it's horrible work.
Yeah.
The only way he's up for me.
I'm not knocking any lads make a good living off of housebrashing for the council.
You know what I mean?
But for me personally, I had one too many jobs where, you know, I just thought this ain't for me, man.
You know, yeah, it was.
And state of the truth, I got I got I got to the point with with working with him where like I've learned a bit all the basics to a T I could do.
I'm no problem.
I started to get my own work on a weekend and an evening.
And I just I just started looking more out there and thinking, look at that upstairs.
That's a nice house.
Like I want to be plastering that.
You know what I mean?
Like what are these block of flats going up here?
What are they going in there?
Plasterers.
I didn't even know that like work like that.
And I look and I'm like, but I want to be doing that.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah.
So it went from there.
That's that's how I got it in my head.
Like I wanted to do them nice big houses and fancy rooms and not just repairing rubbish old toilet bathrooms and all that.
You know what I mean?
So so how did you how did you make that transition then from like, you know, when you first went self-employed and you started cook plastering?
Yeah.
How were you able to target some of these big jobs, bigger jobs?
Did you just use like the Internet or was it something else you did?
Do you know what man?
I think we could talk about how I did how I did that right for like you could make like a four week series of videos about it.
We'll do it next month.
It'll be hard for me to get it in, but I'll tell you in the basics of what it was.
So yeah, how it was for me, right?
I just knew that I wanted to work on nice houses and do good jobs and getting it at the beginning of, you know, properties and projects.
Like that's what I wanted to do.
I wanted to do the better work.
Let's just say that's what I wanted to do and to figure it out.
I literally I went on the Internet all the time, like Google stuff.
I went on YouTube.
I've watched like I've watched so many videos on YouTube just on marketing.
You know, just just all these different influences like entrepreneurs and stuff like that.
And I just found like, you know, the type of work that I wanted to do.
It was a certain way that I had to be and how I were to be put myself and stuff like that.
And that's why I did make I just started literally going on to LinkedIn.
I made LinkedIn account when I went on there first.
I think out of all the plastering companies about how the only one who were really putting on videos and actually putting up posts with explanations on it and talking.
And, you know, I was smashing it on LinkedIn.
And yeah, yeah, I really honestly, I've got books upstairs, right?
I've got my notepads upstairs with like the top 30 companies in Yorkshire right down.
And I had to let us to every single one of them.
I found every single one of them in order that I wanted to work with and planted all the seeds I needed to plan local builders, rang them up, asked them if they had any work.
No, we've got a plasterer ready.
Well, let me send you my information anyway, just in case they let you down on time.
And that's literally what I did.
I just targeted every single one and the best ones I targeted all come back to me.
And that's how I started getting my work.
And when they came back to you and said, all right, Joe, we've got like four houses or something and then you're just you and maybe a couple of lads.
Did you then think, OK, what I'll do is I'll outsource some of the work and I'll bring in lads that way.
Or did you try and keep it in house as you were growing?
Yeah. So at the beginning, right, I wish, right, that I would have kept the first five guys who I had working with me, like, because at the beginning of the
last year, I was so precious and so, I was so precious and so finicky and tactile with everything that I did.
The guys that first come, I was working with them and I was next to them all the time and everything were right.
And I just think with a bit of nurturing from me, if I knew how to be a better leader at that time, I think that would have been perfect.
Like, I would have not needed anything more.
But yeah, it was like, we're getting them jobs in and we were doing them.
We were turning them out nice.
And I'll be honest with you, that was the most profitable time of cook plastering.
When you when you just had the five lads.
Yeah. Yeah.
I hear that a lot, you know, as well.
And I see it a lot on a group.
Yeah, where it seems to be like a bit of a sweet spot, doesn't it?
Yeah.
Four or five lads keeping them closely managed and keeping them happy as well.
Yeah.
That's why I wish I had done, yeah.
Yeah.
So as a business did start to grow and you're taking on bigger jobs, you got more lads working for you.
Was it was it giving you back in life what you thought it would?
Like, what were some of the benefits?
Because obviously you speak on your videos about some of the negative side of it.
But was there a benefit to having a big business like that?
Yeah.
Do you know what?
Right.
I think it was such a learning curve.
Like, I don't regret it to this day.
I'm not happy with how it ended.
I'm not happy with what it turned into the monster.
Like, what?
But I learned so much from it.
Like, I mean, anyone who's watching this will be thinking what's your know about?
How can you say this, right?
But getting that amount of work to me is easy.
Like, that is easy.
Like, I've got no problem with that.
I could go again tomorrow and start a plastering company and I could quite easily build it up to being, you know, a six figure company.
I could do that because to me that's the natural easy thing to do is, you know,
it's marketing, it's networking, it's putting myself in it.
That's natural.
That's something that I spent a lot of time working on.
So I could do that.
But where it comes to the management part of it, people part of it, for me, that will took away from me when I went bigger.
It was, I won't dealing with people, which I am a people person.
I will deal with numbers, figures on a spreadsheet, you know.
But the positive is I learned, I learned so much.
So like when people get these tenders through and stuff like that, don't get me wrong.
The first drawing I got through and the first tender I got through, I looked at it and I was like, what's this?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was looking at this.
It was actually a photo of me and Danny Alice and we sat in my kitchen in this kitchen and they asked them in now.
Me and Danny Alice, I sat here with all these massive drawings on the table.
My mrs. took the photograph of us, right?
And we sat here and literally we're both there with highlighters and rulers trying to measure out these rooms.
Right.
That was one of the first big quotes I did.
I remember I watched one of your vids and you talk about how you sat in a room with a load of QS's and architects and that.
And you said you were all suited and booted and you felt you felt like a duck out of water because you just thought I'm a plaster.
I don't want to be here.
I want to be on the tools.
I want to be hacking off render and spreading and it's not what I want to do.
And was it at that moment when you thought, you know what, this ain't for me.
And is that when it sort of took a turn for the worse?
No, do you know what?
It was like sitting in there with them guys, the QS's and that.
They don't talk the same language as me.
Like they're not passionate about plastering or building houses or people living in them.
They're not bothered about that.
They're only bothered about the numbers.
Yeah, yeah.
You've got to be wrong.
Numbers are nice to laugh.
But also you've got to look at, you know, how we're going to do it and how it's going to work.
And yeah, I just feel like for me, I suppose you've got to look at why are you doing it?
Yeah, you know what I mean?
Yeah, 100% for me.
It's like it got to the point where at first I'm thinking, you know what, if I get a lot of guys working for me, I make a lot of money.
I'll get a nice range over and that.
My Mrs can, you know, get a pass.
We can chill out.
We can do this and, you know, you think that's what you want to do with your life when you're younger.
The media makes it look like that.
Social media does.
And I think I got sucked into that part a bit, but I think reality is I'm a simple man, me.
I'm a simple man.
I like having a nice truck.
I like having nice tools and going nice places with Mrs. and that.
But that's all I really want.
I don't really care what anyone else thinks or I don't want to go to golf course with my mates for our reason and play golf like we're drinking champagne in me.
I'm the same way.
I'm the same way, mate.
And if that's what if that's what floats your boat fair play, you know what I mean?
But I'm the same way, mate.
I've never been one for like the materialism and I mean, I'm one, I like ambition.
I'm an ambitious lad.
But in terms of like the big house and the big car and you know, it's because I know him in my heart, you get the house, you know, you get the four bed house.
And after a year, you think, you know, the shine wears off and you think now I want a five bed house.
Now I want a six bed house and you do it with a car as well.
You might get a new car.
I think it's all grun feeling feeling like you're James Bond.
And then, you know, some time goes by and you think there's someone that likes to have a better car.
I want that car.
And it's like, where do you draw the line where, you know, you've got to sort of find happiness within yourself, haven't you?
So I know exactly what you're saying, man.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So you've grown you've grown this massive business, your monster, you call it.
You've grown this big business.
You've got all these lads on the books.
At what point did did you pull the plug or did it come crashing down?
And then how was you able to when it did come crashing down?
How was you able to bounce back the way you did with Rendervate and sort of rebrand start your YouTube channel and start passing down this wisdom to other plasterers?
So what was that?
How did that come about?
Yeah.
Okay.
Because so what happened was the business actually doubled year on year in size and turnover and all that.
Well, not size, but turnover wise.
And I didn't even know.
But one day my accountant, she was out in the office because she was there.
It got to a point where my accountant were coming in doing a full day a week working there just to do the books and stuff like that.
And I had a couple of people in a couple of last-year offices as well doing admin and literally it was actually coming in.
And she went, she went, do you know, like every year for the last four years you've doubled and I was like, like, I've never even stopped.
I didn't even stopped even look and notice it.
And she went, every year you've doubled for the last four years in turn over.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
It doubled every time.
So I remember it like it was yesterday, like 45, 90, 180.
And then it was like 400.
And then we were on, we were on target for a million and it was like, I didn't even, I didn't even know.
You know what I mean?
No.
I didn't even know.
Cause I hadn't, it was moving so quick and everything was just, you know, spiraling for me because I had people who worked for me.
I didn't even know them.
I never even met them.
Do you know what I mean?
I turned up to jobs and people like who were working for me were like, who's that?
And like guys like, oh, that's a gaffer.
And they were like, oh, are you boss?
Sorry, mate.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's how it got.
Well, like, so yeah, I really didn't like it.
Um, and obviously finances.
I got, I got bumped by a few companies in quick succession, um, 18 grand on my first hit.
Um, then I got like, I got like a 10 grand hit.
And then after that, it was like every other month, I just, I just, I just managed to get smashed over 50k.
Um, in total and it will literally like, it was getting to a point where lads were getting paid late.
Um, I won't get him paid.
I had to go into, um, overdrafts to pay lads to pay stuff.
And it just literally got to a point where I had a five, six grand wage bill every week, which were like a struggle to get.
Do you know what I mean?
I can't imagine it.
I can't imagine it.
I mean, I've had, I've had two lads on and they've been on the books with, you know, on salary with pensions.
And I've had some weekends where I've not slept, um, you know, I've been living off beans on toast and just to make sure they've got their wages in.
And I know how that feels, but I can't imagine finding that sort of money every week that I just, that I just blame on.
Yeah.
Mate, we're a killer, man.
Honestly, we're like, yeah.
And the thing is you're bringing up, bringing them up on that and companies though, you like 10 grand and they're not paying 10 grand because, um, one wallet plastered and stuff.
It's like, come on.
It's crazy because we're always harping on on trial talk.
I am about how, you know, if you're a plasterer, a sole trader with a labor or a small team, set your own payment terms and make sure your client, um, you know, gives you the green light on your payment terms.
But of course, if you're in that line of work, what you were in, big construction companies, big developers, you got no chance of saying, look, mate, I want paid every week because I would just be like, no, we'll choose someone else.
No, wait, mate.
Honestly, honestly.
So I'll tell you what it is.
I actually did do that though.
That's the thing.
So we're going to start talking about the training and stuff and coaching I've got.
And that was one of the things that I actually got taught like, so I out and I won't lie to you.
I'll be talking the honest way.
I set up payment terms with companies that were like 14 days.
Um, some of them were seven days.
Some of them are invoice on Monday.
Get paid on Friday.
But this is one thing I always go back to.
You can set your payment terms, right?
And your contract and all that.
It doesn't matter if you still don't want to do it.
It's like, what can you do?
It's only a piece of paper at the end of the day.
Exactly.
You can't do anything about it.
So that's why I did a video about relationships because I feel like my relationship with construction
companies is non-existent.
Do you know what I mean?
It doesn't matter, but we've missed Smith down the street while I'm doing our house with.
We're on, we've got a good relationship.
You know what I mean?
So I can set what terms I want, but I think with commercial work, you know, I had it in,
in writing in contracts for team day payments.
And, you know, I even have job sheets signed off by site managers that were saying like,
yeah, they've done extra this, this is extra that is extra.
And the QS is going to have, well, I didn't say it's okay.
So I'm not paying it.
It's like, what do you mean?
Yeah.
So I don't think terms of conditions and contracts are any worth the paper to write on me.
I'll be honest with you.
No, no, no, I know what you're saying.
Now, if there's like young lads watching this or maybe plasterers that have been in it a while,
they're hungry, they're ambitious.
They, you know, they want a piece of the pie like you did and like I did.
What, what would you say to them?
Like if they said, Joel, how did you do it?
Like you grew this big business.
I want to grow a big business.
Like what are some of the pitfalls you tell them to be careful of?
Would you, would you, would you guide them to do that?
Or would you say, look, mate, build a small team of five.
That's where the profit lies and don't go beyond that.
Like what would your advice be to them?
First of all, I think you've got to ask yourself a couple of questions and it's like,
how much do you want to earn?
Do you know what I mean?
Like so obviously people going about, you know, I want to have this or I want to have that lifestyle.
I want to have this kind of that.
Yeah.
I think you've always got to start in reverse.
So you've got to look at your lifestyle, I think.
And then you've got to look back and go, right, how much money do I need to earn to, to have that lifestyle that I want?
So this is something I do.
Do you know what I mean?
I do this now and I write everything down, break it all up.
This is what I want.
And then you just divide it into what you actually see you're going to have to earn to have this lifestyle.
That's what I would say.
So if you literally just say, look, I want to have a nice Range Rover and I want to have a nice house.
Mog is going to be this car is going to be that going couple of old days.
Mate, you don't need 30 staff to get that.
You don't need it.
So why would you put yourself through that stress?
You don't need it.
Do you know what I mean?
I think there's a misconception that there's only there's only two ways to earn money.
And that's by either having loads of lads or working yourself to death.
But I always say, look, what about specializing?
You know what I mean?
Like you need to specialize and niche down into these little pockets in the trade where people will pay above average money for you to do a specialist job.
That's that's what I would always say.
That's definitely 100%.
I think I think that's I would say to ask yourself why you want to be like that?
Why do you want to have a big company?
And a lot of it comes down to is what's the word is vanity.
Yeah, it's key.
Jones is that's what.
You know, is that is that to do with like because we've spoke before about, you know, your your years growing up.
Was it were people shocked to see a young lad such as yourself flying and doing well and turning over all this money with like your family and your friends in the circle around you in your personal life?
Were people quite shocked to see you doing that?
Or did they always expect you that you do that?
I reckon it was mixed.
It was a mixed bag.
I think a lot of people were proud of me because where I'm from and what I used to be like when I was younger.
And obviously, you know, I've got brothers and stuff where we're like that.
Do you know what I mean?
And the wrong way and stuff.
So I think for a lot of people who are older around the area and leads who've seen me on Facebook, they're all buzzing.
You know what I mean?
They're like, great.
Well done, Joel.
You avoided the pics and you've you've got made some of your life and stuff like that.
So that's that's a lot of my mates.
A lot of them are dead.
A lot of them in prison.
And yeah, loads of them like it's unbelievable.
And there's only few of us who are still about really.
That's the truth.
It's a shame to hear that.
The reason I bought that up Joel is because I remember one of your videos that he did a while back now.
You're talking about your younger years growing up and whatnot, you know, being a man of colour and you touched on how it wasn't expected that you would do as well as what you did.
Now, obviously, we know racism still out there.
There's no getting away from it.
And it's still a problem.
But I wanted to ask you, have you experienced any of that crap?
Have you had any grief from anyone being on site and growing your business?
So when you're in the offices or when you're on site, has it ever been an issue for you or not?
Do you know what?
Right?
I've seen racism on site and I've had racism towards me on site.
I've had I've had like one guy at work at John Rodriguez said a stupid thing one time because John will like, oh, you're going to go work with some sort of day.
And I was like, all right, cool.
He went, anyway, he went, I'm going to make you work, boy.
And I went, all right, cool.
Yeah.
And nobody said I'm going to make you work like a and he dropped an m bomb in the office.
Yeah.
He dropped the m bomb and I went, I went, eh, really?
He just said that.
And obviously, everyone went quiet.
Yeah, yeah.
I will live it.
I've walked outside and I'm thinking I want to go back in and smash his head in.
But like, then I'm just doing what what everyone would expect me to do.
Anyway, John does come and said, like, look, Joel, this is what it is.
If you want to meet and get rid of him right now on the spot, he's done.
He said, but honestly, you know, it's up to you.
He said he's from a different era and he won't try to make an excuse from a know what you were trying to do.
And I said, yeah, I totally get it.
I said, he's from a different era where that kind of comment and banter was accepted.
I get that.
But yeah, yeah, he don't really know me like that.
And, you know, obviously I don't like it, but I thought one of them to lose his job.
I said, just give him a just give him a chat mate, whatever.
And he went by, he went jolly, you're sure he said, because he can go now if you want.
I said, mate, honestly, there's there's other word of him if you can, please.
And then like I said, that was it.
And he went in, talked to guy and that was last day, I heard of it.
He was sweet as after that.
But yeah, that was one of them.
And I just had I've had the odd one way, you know, like if you were me talk now, I'm I'm broad Yorkshire.
You know, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
If you couldn't see my face, you won't know what color or.
True, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm just a Yorkshire strong Yorkshire accent.
And one guy who when I worked at the company, he'd be like, yo, Joe, man, what's happening, man?
You're right, brother.
And I just I just remember saying to him, just gonna, do I talk like that?
And I said, do I talk like that?
And he went, and I said exactly, mate.
I said, talk to him like that again and I'll slap you.
Yeah, yeah.
And that's all I said to him.
It's just making that snap judgment, isn't it?
You know, based on a parents.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm not talking about I'm I'm from an area that's that's mixed culture and we say motion
gage, you know, I mean, I wanted to ask you about that because I've never heard mush because
I mean, every time you message us, hey, you're mush.
How are we doing?
Mush, I'm like, Mush, is that is that like a friendly thing or like what's that all about?
So I'm on West Midlands and I've never heard about it.
But we try.
Mush.
Yesterday, didn't we?
We just today about your accent and you were saying about our like the affluent jobs that
you're targeting now where you know, the mob, it might be a million pound house, for example,
people are shocked sometimes to see you rock up and you've you've you talk about how you've
had to tweak your accent a little bit and your body language and how you how you communicate
it and to do with your sales process and how you come across.
Could you talk about talk about that a little bit?
Yeah, so I think I learned a lot of this from well from Craig, you know, Craig Wilkinson.
Oh, yeah, I did coaching with him.
So basically he he he touches on a really good subject.
I believe I'm one of one of the sessions that we have is about it's about marketing and stuff
like that and how you are as a, you know, the certain things right that like we can do
as humans or salespeople is when you mean anybody that you can change subtly that it
changes the way people are with you.
And it sounds like I'm talking about witchcraft, but it's just as soon as Craig started talking
about this and we were getting into it and he give us some stuff to research that will
be like when I get something I'm hooked.
That's me.
So I watch videos on it on body language, my tone, my eye, you know, how I look.
Obviously the obvious things I've got tattoos and that and you know, one of the things right
I wear tops so people can't see them and it's not because I'm ashamed of them.
It's because I don't want you to have any reason to judge me in any ill way before you even hear me.
And that is it.
So I just literally used to wear a long sleeve top, make sure my hair is cut nice.
I've got no facial hair.
I know you've got a beard not against them, but I'm saying like you've got to understand with me.
I've got to make up for what's not up top.
You know what I mean?
I've got to have some options, man.
Yeah.
The thing is for me, it's like how I already look and quite a big lad and my voice is a little bit common.
Let's say I could come across as being a bit intimidating.
So last thing I need is my tattoos and you know, tight top on where I'm walking down.
I don't need it.
So just minor things like that.
I just tweaked it to that.
And obviously I will talk to them without calling them mushing gage.
I just don't really polite.
And do you find by making these changes in your body language and the way you speak a little bit,
do you find that you can build a rapport with people that they're not the same age as you.
They're not the same background as you.
But you still you can build a rapport and build a trust by making these little changes just to sell it.
So you don't like you say come across as intimidating or anything like that.
Does it help you sell jobs?
Yeah, 100%.
Also, I've got to say, I've got to say this to you, right?
Like obviously where I'm from and that and I would grow up around here.
It's a bit a bit wrecky.
I'll be honest with you.
But the reality is the way my mum raised me, she raised me to have empathy to to always talk to people
and be confident when I talk to people, be polite to people of manners.
So these are things that I already had in me already.
But I just adjusted a few minor things and 100%.
I believe that that has helped me grow like my character.
How I talk to people has helped me win work.
Massively, massively.
Brilliant.
You mentioned you mentioned your mum there, Joel.
And I know you were right with this because we spoke earlier.
Rich Walfa talks about how that when his mum passed away, bless her, he used that pain and he sort of converted it into fuel if you like.
And he went full throttle into his personal development and his business ventures.
You talk about on your videos that you sort of did the same thing.
Is that right?
Yeah, when you talk to Rich about it, I just thought that was wicked because it will like you were telling my story.
I was listening to you both and I was like, well, there you are.
That is so familiar.
And yeah, it was it was that it was it's a why it's a why to start with because you want to make them proud.
But I think, you know, we come and say she's my sister's and stuff like that after a few years and once I've you know, I had cut plastering going and you know, when it stopped and stuff.
And you feel a bit of a failure and that my sister's well, you're not a failure.
You know, your brother's in prison.
The other brothers, you know, being in prison in an hour's life, you mix of, you know, few of them have locked up for 30 odd years.
Few of them are dead.
Few of them are thinking you're not a failure.
Mum's proud of you.
No chance.
Yeah.
I mean, most friends, most friends wouldn't even have the balls to do what you've done.
Joel, you know what I mean?
I mean, to get to that level.
Speaking from a South here, you know, when I got to three lads, I said that's enough.
You know, I'm not I'm not growing beyond that.
And that some people might say, oh, that's like self-limiting.
But the way I've seen in the distance, I just thought if I carry on growing, because I had a young family at the time, I knew how much hours that this business was pulling away from my personal life.
And I thought if I carry on on this path of growth, I'm going to be like 12 hours a day, 14 hours a day and the weekends because that comes back to probably get us nicely into the next one, actually comes back to the systems and the coaching that you said Craig was open you with.
I didn't have any of that.
I didn't know what the fuck I was doing when I started my business.
I was doing everything myself.
Yeah.
I was working 14 hours a day.
And I just kept thinking I'm the one that has to do the most hard work and, you know, all the admin, the sales being on the tools and then, you know, the accounts and the bookkeeping and everything else.
But how did coaching help you and what made you decide to get involved with with Craig?
Do you know, do you know what?
Yeah, I think I'd be honest with you.
Right.
I didn't finish the course.
I finished.
I didn't do the last two to matter being free to think is.
But mentally and stuff like would cut plastic and we're coming to an end and obviously financially and mentally and stuff like that.
But Craig, Craig, right?
I'm going to take my off to this guy.
Yeah.
This guy is like, he's a great guy.
Like he just is a great guy.
He's he's clueled up.
He's smart.
He's been there.
He's done it.
I could relate to him very well as being a normal Northern lad.
I just really got on with him.
Do you know what I mean?
I really I respect him and everything he did.
I think I think his course is good.
I think it'll teach you a lot of things if you are looking to grow and you want to systemise your business and stuff like that.
But I think it's one of them where I would recommend it to most people to get a business coach or a mentor because this is mad out here.
You don't you don't realise how hard it is, but it's difficult.
It's difficult, man.
It's so difficult and you need that little bit of guidance.
You know what I mean?
And I think at first you think, yeah, it costs that much to do a course and this and that, but it's worth probably double that.
Yeah, I know what you're saying.
Rich was saying now he compares it to like if you wanted to if you wanted to become physically strong and fit and you know, toned or whatever, you'd get a personal trainer.
And he uses that example of, you know, in business, it's the same thing if you want to get results and you need coaching.
Yeah, I was ignorant to it for years and years and I've only recently signed up with the EBA, but I'll be honest with you.
I've hardly scratched the surface on what they do and what's on offer because I've just been flat out like with work and family life.
But I do plan to get proper stuck into it.
But so, you know, joining the EBA, they help you add systems into your business and things like that as well.
Yeah.
So how it works, right, is that you go through like every month you do a different part of the coaching program and one of them is systems and systemising your business.
And do you know what?
It's one of them, man.
You can look it in so many different ways.
You know, I think a lot of business owners like us who are self-employed wear so many hats.
And I think it just opens your eyes up.
It depends how far you want to go to how much you systemise it.
You know, I feel like for me, for me, it's more of a my customers and my client base is more of a personal touch.
You know, yeah, yeah.
Do you use any CRM systems at all?
Because I remember you talking about a service mate.
Yeah, that's me.
You service mate, yeah.
Service mate, because I don't know.
I'll be honest with you.
I don't know any plasterers that are using service mate.
A few people have spoke about it.
Do you rate it?
Is it is it decent?
Do you know what?
For me, it's bang on is in the fact of another one called TradiFi and something else out there.
Yeah, yeah.
But I mean, do you know what?
It's I ain't got nothing to compare to service mate is just one that I started on and it's what I know.
And it's it's one that I get along with.
It's great.
It's got a great desktop app that I use my MacBook.
I've got me app on my phone and yeah, it's good, man.
It's just great.
And I'll tell you, for instance, why it's great as well.
And this is this is one of the class things about it happened last week.
So I did a job last year and I did it for a customer in York and it were a big, big old mansion rendered it.
And they were determined that I top cut it in the winter.
And I said, guys, it's not going to take if I do it in the winter.
It'll it'll discolor it.
They'll do this and do that because where the house was, it was in the middle of nowhere.
And anyway, they were determined that I did it.
So anyway, I've got the log of that.
What's that talk?
Email, Fred pictures, everything all on my CRM system.
All logged.
And it's like, it was so easy to do.
Take a picture, download it, put it onto my onto the CRM and it's there.
So then I got a call last week from my manufacturers saying that basically this company had said that they were something wrong with the render, blah, blah, blah, trying to pin it.
Obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I was going, all right, cool, mate.
Go go.
I'll send you all my information.
Bump sent it over.
No problem.
Go went to the job, come back.
So it's all my full interaction with every customer is saved on my CRM.
So it's all been recorded.
Everything everything makes you can't you can't say that I said this.
Sorry, I said that.
Yeah, yeah.
That's brilliant.
Now, I've been trying a system called your trade base, which is similar to similar to service, mate, but it's like a simplified version.
And I'm getting on great with that.
I'll eventually I'll do like a little video on it.
But yeah, it's brilliant.
It does everything what you've just said where a lead will come in and from that lead coming in, everything just sort of splinters out, but it's all in one place.
So you just put the customer's name in and everything like you said interactions come up pictures of the job, text messages, their address, their email.
And because I spent years looking for customers information like I scribbled down on the back of a pretty sandwich packet and stuff like that.
And because this has been a game changer for me, but I'll do I'll do more stuff on it.
Now, Rendervate.
What was what was the idea behind that?
And how was about the birth of Rendervate?
So you've had this big, huge business and then you've changed lanes and you've decided, right, I'm going to start up as Rendervate.
And and you start looking into the spray rendering.
Talk about that.
How did you get involved with the spray rendering?
So I bought my first machine from P1.
It was an M200 I got from them.
And that was my first machine.
I thought that one has actually had cut plastering because we started doing a bit of rendering.
So yeah, I did a massive job in Leeds recycling centre and it was an absolute nightmare because I didn't know how to work machine.
And it was like we're a 30 grand job and I don't think I made a penny on it.
That's how bad it was.
Oh, dear.
Did you have the right training with the machine or did you feel it the training wasn't there or do you know why?
It's one of them.
I think I think I can't.
You can't.
It's I think with machines, right?
It's it's a tricky one because you could easily enough say, yeah, we don't get the right training this and that.
And I don't think a morning's training on a machine is adequate.
I don't know, but it's like how much is adequate.
How much you need.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How much is adequate?
You know, you have got to with everything we've done in this trade.
We've got to trial and error.
True.
Yeah.
I think retro wise, like for me, I might even do a bit of machine training.
I might start offering a little bit of it to people by a machine and not basically just setting them up.
But I'll just spray as well because it's hard.
Yeah.
You know, Marcus Barron asked me a question earlier and I promised I'd ask you.
He wanted to know how did you market to do spray render if you'd only ever done sort of like your your gypsum internal and maybe a bit of sand and cement?
How did you find switching things up and changing lanes where you thought, well, I'm going to focus on machine spray render?
Was it a difficult transition to make?
No, it's not me.
I mean, like I say, I think marketing, marketing is one of the funniest things I like to do in business.
Yeah.
I love it.
Yeah.
That to me is like, it's a challenge as in like I want to grow something.
Let me see how big I can get it and like, yeah, for me was a challenge.
So it was fun.
It was fun.
The switch over wasn't hard.
I'll be honest.
I say this all the time on my videos and that's people.
I say, listen, video content, putting posts out there and not just putting a video out of the machine.
You talking me explaining like, do you have any how many people?
Right?
I've got a video on my YouTube channel and it basically all it is is me explaining what Monocush is and what Finca is.
That's what it is.
Yeah.
I get so many customers referencing that video.
That's good.
So video marketing has helped you.
Which is exactly the same thing.
Video marketing has got to be the way forward, hasn't it?
I think that's what that is.
The number one thing that has helped everyone identify me with rendering.
I'm a plasterer of me.
I'm a plasterer from the beginning.
I love plastering.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know more about it quite a lot, but I love it.
But I think when it comes to the rendering to show people that I am a renderer, I had to do videos.
I had to do posts out there and yeah, that's all I did.
So for me, I want an odd switch over me.
It's been quite seamless and I get a lot of rendering works.
That's brilliant because you're pretty much self-taught renderer.
I know you picked up a lot of knowledge, book knowledge and stuff, but you spoke earlier about how you were able to transfer your floating skills that you learned like hard wall browning, bonding and things like that.
Internal and you just transition those floating skills onto an external surface.
Would you?
Because there's a lot of lads on the group where they can skim, no problem, but then give them some plastering sand and they're just like, nah, I'm not getting involved.
Was it hard to sort of pick that up moving from internal floating to then teaching yourself rendering?
How long did that take?
Was it was it difficult or?
Yeah, you know what?
You know, it was kind of hard because I think there's so many different aspects and different things that you need to learn with with render, reacts different to the internal stuff.
Yeah, yeah.
I think the only way to again, to get better at that is to understand the products and why they're doing what they do and stuff like that.
And I think I educate myself with people like Eco, Rend and Baumit.
I ask them questions like I'll ring a rep.
If I'm using a new material, I'll ring the rep up and I'll say, right, mate, what does it go on best as how thick does it need to be going on?
What am I looking at picking up times on it?
You know, what would you think is better than diamond floor to sponge what people saying about it?
And these are the questions that I ask them and, you know, they'll be like, you know, they answer it for me and tell me what it is.
Try this, Joel, try that, bum, bum.
And before you know it, you know, you've got it working to how you like it and that's it.
I think it's just learning the products, what goes into it.
Why is it so sticky?
Why is it like this?
Do you know what I mean?
And, you know, there's different ways to apply different renders and that's all it is.
You just talk into the people who make it and know.
Yeah, yeah.
Because I would say start off on sand and cement on a garden wall or something, you know, at your own house.
Do you know what I mean?
And then build up from there just baby steps.
That's how I did it because I'm self taught as well.
It's hard.
So I think some of the minutes, I think you guys like.
You know, like Martin Eason, right?
I look at his son and cement work and that brilliant.
Yeah, this guy, he puts my render into shame.
I have to make sure when I'm taking my pictures, I make sure I've got the right wall.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, this guy, this guy's son and cement work is different level.
There I'm going on and it's bang on.
And then the solid corners as well and stuff, you know, I wouldn't get involved.
I'll stick a bead on all day long.
I would.
He, he, them guys will do that.
Right.
Honestly, sand and cement and you yourself, you do some cement, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's so much harder to do than OCRs and, you know, bagged material.
It's so much harder, I believe.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, just getting a mixed rights challenge sometimes as well, isn't it?
Exactly.
Exactly.
Right.
And we'll move on to self employment.
And I spoke briefly earlier to yourself.
What do you, what would you say some of the, some of the pros and cons are to self employment?
If we've got some members watching that, I think, if going to work for themselves,
the pros and cons of self employment job.
Right.
The pros of being self employed for me are my own boss.
I can set my own schedule.
I can set my own rate of pay.
I can, you know, when I was on all day, I want to go on all day for another day off.
I can have a day off.
Um, basically that is, that is really it.
That, that, uh, pros freedom, freedom, freedom of setting your own rate.
Being free, being free with it really, you know, it's your, it's your platform to,
when you, when you're self employed and you, you're by yourself, it's your platform to create what you want to create.
You can make it what you want.
Absolutely.
You can have it as you can.
It's flexibility as well, isn't it?
You can, you can have it as small or like you, you can go, you can blow it up and you're really, you're in charge of that,
I suppose, aren't you?
Yeah, you are.
That's the thing is, and you'll, you'll enjoy it as long as you are in charge of it.
Do you know what I mean?
That is it.
Once you start losing control, you need to read it back in and think about, you know, how you're doing it, what you're doing.
But I think for anyone who wants to be self employed, it's your picture, man.
You can paint it how you want to educate yourself.
Just make sure that you're getting educated because I believe that's one of the things I wish I'd have done earlier.
I wish I talked to people who are better than me, people who are the experts, people who are,
well, they want no one doing what you do, Stuart, like they want no one doing what you do, the content you put out and the videos.
I would have loved to have had something like what you're doing.
Like I would have loved it as well.
That's why that's why it was born, Joel.
Because I felt the same.
I thought, where's the guidance, man?
Where's the information?
The right information, not just any information, but the right information from professional plasterers that know what they're doing.
Like there's no guidance.
There's no guidance.
It's just taken in banter, you know.
Yeah.
And that's why I think, you know, I would recommend anybody, you know, I always plug Trattle Talk.
I always say go on there because Stuart and the rest of the guys, you'll run it like dickheads on there.
And the reality is you will, you'll always have, you know, help with difficult questions and stuff like that.
If you're struggling, you'll get your advice there with no, with no shit really.
And that's what that's, that's something I wish I had when I was younger.
So yeah, I think, listen, learn as much as you can.
And, you know, that's a pro.
You'll be blessed with that.
So, Conn.
Now, appreciate that as well, mate.
Yeah, go on, Conn's self-employment, Conn's.
Tax.
What's that?
Honest to God, the tax man's an absolute tool.
Yeah, hate them.
Just when you think you're in profit, innit?
You think you've got, you think you're nice and then you look at your tax income flow and it's like, oh, man.
Yeah, yeah.
I'll get a day later and a sticky one on your pound fine and it's like, whoa, come on.
I'll tell you what I find most hardest, see if you can relate to this.
Most hardest thing for me about being self-employed and running my own jobs, yeah, is merging jobs.
So, because everything's a guessing game, innit?
Like you'll quote a job, you'll think that will take me eight days that one.
And then Mrs. Smith thinks she's like, when can you start?
You're like, all right, I'll start on this, you know, second of September or whatever.
And you're on your job and you're thinking, when's the second of September?
You look at your calendar and you're like, Monday, fuck you now.
I've got six days left on this one, you know what I mean?
That's what I find the most difficult is merging jobs and trying to honour that start date.
Do you find that hard?
Bro, man, one of the hardest things ever, man.
I'm honestly, and right now, obviously, I have two guys who had women fall left, right?
So, it's just me trying to finish off these jobs that I've actually got on.
And it's like, I'm giving dates, right?
And I'm forgetting that it's just me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I was going to ask you about this because you used to work in with your man, Daymo.
Yeah, yeah.
And like I said about Matt, when there's two plasterers, you bounce off each,
I don't know how much experience you'll make, but you bounce off each other when you're laying on
and even a cleaning open load in the van.
And then what I've found is the same thing going back to myself.
I have got a labourer that I've pulled in now and again.
Yeah.
But going back to just myself, it's getting back that head game back in, you know, where you're cleaning up,
you're loading up, you're doing everything, man, everything.
And there's no one to bounce off and it does.
You don't realise how much longer your jobs take there.
Yeah, it's meant to take longer, isn't it?
I think when it comes to the applying and stuff like that, it's longer, but do you know what Stuart?
I love it.
I mean, like, honestly, I'm right now, I'm really like, I've still got some stuff I need to iron out
as far as business goes.
I'm not a perfect business at all.
I've still got problems and issues that I need to sort out on it.
But I'll tell you what, Joel, none of us are perfect, man.
No, no.
I know it will be perfect, but I really dead set of being serious with you.
I mean, join it, man.
I mean, join it.
I don't mind sweeping up, mate.
That's second nature to me.
I used to rip houses off for fun when I started working with you.
Yeah, yeah.
I was skipping a morning, mate.
That's nothing to me.
What I'm this stuff I'm doing now, it's so much easier.
And I think that's where rendering and being a grafter and stuff like that, you know, these kind of things are minus to me, mate.
Yeah.
You know, I've seen you like you love your big boy toys and you getting your truck out and getting your drills out
and showing everyone on the YouTube.
Like this is what I do, you know, with my trials and my drills and my truck.
And it is like you said, it's like when you're little playing with a Lego and that, you get to do it as a as an adult sort of.
That's the same way.
Like I can't imagine having a job where I was sort of sat behind a desk on the computer or something like that.
I'll be bored off my head.
Honestly, I have to be doing something with my hands, you know.
So I'm the same way.
Now, YouTube, Joel.
What?
What?
What made you decide to start the YouTube channel?
Was it because you see another lad doing it and you thought, yeah, I'll be good at that.
I can talk or can present myself or was it was another reason you started it or?
Um, I didn't really see many people doing the content that I wanted to do out there to be honest.
Yeah.
I know the only person I used to see on on on YouTube as a plaster or a plane from a plane.
Gray plane.
Gray.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Is a good lad.
Is a good bloke and but he does he does coaching for for plasterers and stuff like that.
And he does some really good topics.
I like his stuff.
He's brilliant.
Yeah.
He's got some fantastic videos.
Yeah.
Top man.
There's some good stuff.
Is a good lad as well.
So I think he would be the only person, but I'll be honest for you.
I watched a guy called Aaron our buildings.
Have you seen it?
It doesn't ring a bell.
That was he spread?
Nah, it makes buildings in America like like, you know, like I've got barn of domians of barn of
conditons, what they're called big gas bands and out.
Okay.
Is and so I used to watch him from our and our buildings and his videos are just cool.
Like he'd show you how he does his footings and brings it out.
And I just like watching all the American stuff really like the guys.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean?
Like not even my trade.
Like there's a guy a follow who's got a long cutting service.
Oh, yeah.
I just bought it, but it gets me hooked.
Like, yeah, yeah.
I'm watching it and I'm like, I don't even care about cutting grass.
I don't have no grass.
I'm looking.
I'm like, this is sick.
Like, but his business, his marketing, um, how he talks, you know, how he does his videos,
all that kind of stuff got me into it and take truth.
I just want to create good content for plasterers, renderers and anyone else who's
interested in our trade.
That is it.
Like I want to see it.
Yeah.
And then if people want to get involved in your channel and go and check it out,
what do they search?
Just, is it just render?
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you type in Joe Cook or render in like on screen here, it comes up.
Yeah.
Did this to a day after in an army videos and everything come up.
So yeah, Joe Cook or render.
They would come up all the YouTube stuff comes up.
That's the channel.
Fantastic.
What I'll do at the end, I'll put that into the comments section on our little chat.
Um, because I'm saving all these interview chats in, uh, in file, not in files.
There's a part of the Facebook group where I can save them.
I think it's called guides.
So I'll put it all there, but I'll make sure I backlink your, your channel for you,
mate.
Um, now what time we on now?
Well, just creeping over an hour and I'm conscious.
I don't want to take too much more of your time up, mate.
Um, now what I wanted to ask you this, what's your, what's your game changer?
What's your game changer?
Could it, it could be a material or a tool that's come out on the market?
Hmm.
Game changer.
I've actually written down, um, a couple of things that people might, might not really care about,
but I'll say, um, get away.
My cat's on table.
Sorry.
Move.
Um, right.
Okay.
A material that I've started using a lot recently, um, from e-core and X 32.
Now.
I use it for thin coat.
You can use it as a base coat for monocoque or anything like that, but I've just found
it's absolutely beautiful to work with.
And it's just, yeah, it's a game changer for me as a base coat.
Um, it's got body.
You can put it on quite thick.
It hangs around a little bit, especially if you're working with yourself and a
labor you need that extra bit of time.
Um, I find that it rules up lovely.
It takes the mesh and it sponges up greater power flow.
So as far as materials go, I think you should give it a go.
Um, if you're doing.
What's your future plans?
That's what I wanted to ask you future plans for Joe.
Um, mate, do you know what the change all time?
My plans change all time, but I can tell you if I'm going to be honest and say
that the, uh, the one that's going to have longevity and one that I really want to
do is literally I'm just going to be me.
Joe will cook, render it in my badass truck when I get it all kitted up.
Uh, I get a new trailer.
I'm going to get badass trailer signed up.
Um, I'm just going to go around doing nice rendering jobs, renovation, uh, plastering.
So I like to do house from the beginning.
Someone buys an house and I want it gutting and replastering up.
Um, I'll deal with it with, um, the homeowner and do that part of it.
Um, so I like doing that, taking it from, from bricks to, to actually a layout.
Yeah.
So that's what I love to do.
That takes me back to my beginning days in plastering.
So that's the only plastering I'm really interested in going around, doing
machines, uh, rendering jobs.
And I want to build the YouTube channel.
Um, because I'd like to, I'd like to make that something, you know, I'd like
to make client into something, um, longterm really.
I'd like to, yeah, maybe it is.
Mate, you're doing, um, you're doing well.
What is it?
2000 subs nearly nearly mate.
Nearly trying to get there.
Yeah.
But again, I haven't been consistent and I've got a lot of content that I
haven't even edited and stuff like that.
So it's just finding that time and that balance.
But it's a slow move.
I've noticed YouTube's slow.
Yeah.
It's going to be a slow move.
I bet could you do you want, uh, whatever platforms are you on?
You're on, uh, is it tick tock as well?
I just started that tick tock and it took off me.
Yeah.
It took off.
Yeah.
Cause someone said every time I mentioned Joel Cook, they always say tick tock.
They always go back to tick tock.
I've seen him on tick tock.
Yeah.
So that would be, I mean, I've not even looked at it, but it's just quick.
I'll try and get it.
It's quick format mate.
Like I think, yeah, I think tick tocks, um, it's just quick format, but there's
no, there's no, uh, for me, I've seen my, my, my, uh, online videos and that being
more longer into series, you know what I mean?
Like full, yeah, and stuff.
But I think as far as, you know, getting your name out there and building
your brand up a bit more.
I reckon, um, tick tocks to once it's quick format, you know, your mobile
phone and it's super easy to edit and it's got music on there and it's just,
it's just easy.
Me.
I grew literally.
I'm nearly at 5,000 followers on it and I, I haven't even been on it long.
Like, that's insane.
That's a lot.
I've got, I've got one video on 440,000 views or something.
Do you know what I mean?
So it's like, can you not like, um, sort of sway them to join the YouTube?
Or do you think it's a totally different markets?
The, the, the pages or I reckon, I reckon it could work.
You know, I think if, if the same people are going to tick tock, going YouTube
and they see my face pop up, they'll probably go and look at it then.
Do you know?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's how I see that.
So I'm pushing it to once that way.
Yeah.
But it's good.
It's good.
It's good.
Awesome.
Now, um, earlier today, Joel, I put a post up, um, and the, the idea of this
post was so we could sort of do a little bit of a Q and A and it just asked
the question, do you think that you should, um, stay as a two or three man
team in your plastering business or grow it big?
And that was the question.
And I just wanted to get your, your viewpoint on some of the answers
from members, if that's okay, just before we wrap up.
Um, I'll just pick a few random, uh, comments if that's all right.
So we've got, let's have a look here.
I've got Ainsley Smith.
He says that the bigger the business, the less in touch with the customer and
the bottom line, the gaffer is, what do you think to that?
Is that a fair statement?
Would you say the bigger the business, the less in touch with the customer,
the gaffer is?
Yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
100% cause that's what happened to me.
Yeah.
So to me, I would honestly, people, I've had people say to me, are you
plastering my house?
And I'm like, can't remember.
Yeah.
I'm just saying I've never met you.
It's like, yeah, I've never grown that big to, to experience that, but that's
an, that's an interesting one.
Um, Mick Hargreaves stays small, less headaches, less stress.
You've got more control of your business, less chance of people ruining
your business reputation.
He says that's just my opinion each to their own.
I'd say that's pretty bang on statement.
Yeah.
Is it on edge?
Is it on edge?
You can't fault what he's all said there.
Everything you said is accurate to the team.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, we've got Raymond Hindle.
Are you Raymond?
He says I'd love to get bigger.
Nothing worth having in life is easy.
Um, there's such fingers, good stress keeps you hungry.
It keeps you alert, keeps you wanting more.
I haven't been going long, but I've done some amazing jobs, big and small.
Um, and some of them definitely out of my comfort zone, but I've got there
in the end.
Fake it till you make it.
To be fair, to be fair, that's a good attitude.
It's a good attitude.
Yeah.
Like, like you're on the other side of it where you've done it.
You've got the t-shirt sort of thing.
So, but it, that reminds me of me and probably yourself about 15 years ago.
Yeah, that's, that's, um, yeah, very optimistic.
And you know what?
Don't lose that.
You should always have your optimism.
I rate you for dreaming big and it's great.
And by no means am I saying because of my journey, that it's not possible.
Anyone can do it.
You can, you can do it, but you know, my advice to you is, is to educate yourself,
get a coach, get a mentor, learn it.
And you have got to have a good threshold of taking stress and stuff like that.
I get that.
Um, I have got a good threshold of it, but don't mean I'm going to go do it again.
Do not mean so.
Good advice.
It's good advice.
Chris Davidson, he says, depends what you want.
Um, I was big a few years ago.
It was difficult finding plasterers that were good and consistent.
The best ones either work for themselves or were just unreliable.
Um, the money was okay, but it wasn't enough for the hassle that you got.
Uh, a bit like what you said when you had loads of lads, you, you weren't
more just having five lads, I suppose.
Yeah.
He says, he says personally, I've never seen many big plastering firms succeed.
For more than a few years, they are out there, but they're very rare.
I think it's better to specialize than it is to expand.
I've got to say, I agree with that last statement there.
It's better to specialize 100%.
Yeah.
I mean, you could go out, for example, you could go and get 10 lads, um, and earn
a little bit off each lad.
And by the time you paid the wages and everything else involved, you could look
at your profit and you probably get that same profit margin specializing in a
really, um, niche down area of plastering, you know, um, insulation, for example,
or something that's really niche.
You could probably earn the same amount of profit.
What, what would you say, Joel?
100% mate.
Like for me, I, I would always look at, um, so I worked backwards.
Like I told you earlier on it video, I would like to work backwards.
So, you know, you look at a salary that you'd like to earn for a lifestyle and
then work it back.
So I know how much money I should make off of a three bed semi house to render.
I know how much money I'll make off of a, you know, 200 meters worth of render.
So I can target how many of them I want per year to earn a salary that I want to earn.
That's it.
Cause what you're doing, it is pretty specialist at the minute, isn't it?
Compared to like your bread and typical bread and butter spread.
And I think a lot, a lot of lads on the group are sort of looking to people like
yourself, um, rich welfare that have, you know, got the machines and they're sort
of, uh, paving the way for us lot really.
Cause yeah, I think it's the future.
It's got to be the future, hasn't it?
So I've done a lot of training last week with the spray stuff and I'm just thinking
to myself, this, this is the way it's going.
This is the way it's going.
Um, sorry.
I've got a thing.
I want to say something on that because yeah, I think, um, although right,
this, this is crazy.
I did a video.
I haven't even put it out yet.
It's crazy, but I know what you're saying, right?
And I agree with you.
It's the future.
It's, it's something new, right?
So, so check this out.
If you don't know about spray rendering, I don't know about spray plastering.
I don't know about Venetian.
It's something new and it intrigue you and you think, you think, yes, you know, that's,
I want a bit of that.
I want a bit.
I'm missing out here.
I want a bit of that.
That's what you think, right?
Now, honestly, I just happened to, to know that I liked rendering from early days and
it just means my machine is only, um, an accessory to something I enjoy to do.
Do you know?
So that's what I'm saying.
It's like a lot of people that see me with a machine and think, yo, look how much he's
doing.
He must be earning a fortune.
I want to do that.
Like you can make a fortune doing any aspect of plastering.
I could, I could be a plasterer and just do domestic bedrooms day in, day out, but
I could be charging 300 pound a day.
That's the difference, isn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's the difference.
That's the, that's how you market yourself.
Are you push yourself like plasterers who are getting 150, 160 a day, but then the reality
is you can build your reputation and your brand and your name.
So I'm getting 300 pound a day and it's like, that's where I'm always going with,
with trial talk and when, when, when guys are messaging me saying, um, you know, I can
only earn this much a week and I'm saying, well, I'm, I'm actually earning a day and
they don't even ask themselves a question half the time.
But, um, going back to this, I'll just add a few more in Joel and then we'll, we'll
wrap up mate.
Um, I wanted to mention Rich again, because he's, he talks about machines about how they,
how they cut out labor, which is an interesting one.
He says, I managed to keep it small or using machines to cut out labor and to take back
control, uh, low outgoans and high profits.
Do you find this the same thing as well?
Like, let's say if you're bashing out, um, a bedroom, like you said, you re skimming a
bedroom, if you, if you were to compare that against like a spray render finish, a
specialist spray render finish, are you able to charge a lot more money for the
render?
Yeah.
So rendering is a lot, a lot, a lot more than plastering, um, in, as well as materials
and, you know, the outlay and stuff like that.
So it's obviously going to be a more expensive service.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I still think when it comes to labor and actually earning new wages, I think
everyone can maximize, you know, what they do.
So I think even a traditional plastering, just schemes, normal walls can maximize
that by doing certain things.
Um, yeah.
Yeah.
The machines do, you know, rich enriches a profession.
What it does with a spray definitely alleviates a laborer, don't it?
Oh, 100%.
That's the first thing I found when I went down there, cause I went down for the,
uh, the little session with him is I thought I was, I was chatting to you and
we put a few, a fair few meters on and he said, it's just so easy on it.
And I says to be fair, like none of us are sweating yet.
And you know, and you look round, you think if, if that was multi now, you'd be
crouching and stretching and crouching and, you know, and it'd be hard.
You know what I mean?
So I can, I can see the benefits of it as well.
But I also appreciate where, where the lads are coming from, where they,
they mentioned about, um, there's a lot of, um, processes involved to get to that
finished result.
So I can see both, uh, both arguments on that one.
Um, so Neil Taylor has commented.
He says, we've done it for 20 years with four or five, uh, four to five
gangs working for us, stressful and frustrating at times.
It, uh, like it's already been mentioned in comments.
Uh, most of the reliable and good spreads work for themselves.
So it's hard to find the staff.
Did you struggle finding stuff when you were, when you were growing?
Yeah.
Uh, you don't even believe my now, are it is?
I mean, the first five, like I said, was, was steady and do a very finely selected
and they're all good people still now.
Them guys are all cool, but he got to the point where I was, you know,
I had guys, I didn't even know I guys that turned up pissed.
I had guys that turned up in a weed, I had guys that, that turned up in,
in a car with three other people telling me they were a gang of plasters.
They had an onboard and travel two of them and rest of them.
Labor.
I've had, I've seen everything.
I've seen everything.
And I think it's really hard, especially when you, you're quality driven and,
you know, customer satisfaction is a big thing for you.
I think it's really hard to get guys.
Yeah.
What are they?
They are out there though, mate.
They are out there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And it's, it's, it's, I feel a lot of it is the training as well.
Like we know there's a huge, you know, skill shortage.
We know that young lads ain't choosing lads and girls ain't choosing to come into the game.
Um, and that's something that I'm, I'm trying to, you know, raise awareness of as well.
And I know you, I know you feel strongly about that as well, but.
Yeah.
Do you?
Um, if you ain't getting that right training and then you've got such low entry barriers into the game,
it's going to attract all sorts.
You're going to get a mixed bag of skill sets.
Aren't you?

You know, um, now before you shoot, I know that you've got your little side hustle.
Um, teas of the trade is what it is.
Teas of the trade.
Teas of the trade, mate.
Yeah.
Right.
How do we get one of these t-shirts?
Have you got a website?
No, it's not a website yet.
So it's just basically an ex, an exy website.
It's an exy shop.
It's where that little boutiques and stuff go.
Um, so my mrs is, is behind a lot of it.
She, she knows about all this stuff apart from me.
I just tell her the ideas and the designs and make sure it's on a good t-shirt.
Um, cause I don't know rubbish tops out cause I know we, we're a bust that way.
We're working on site or we're doing whatever they need to be strong.
So I just do the, I'm like the bit of the lab rat on it.
Um, quality, quality checks and that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And the model is I always wanted to be a model.
So yeah, I wasn't going to make the runway.
Was I?
I want, I want to feel no fault darling.
So do people, if they want one of just message yourself, yeah?
Yeah.
Message me or you can, yeah, it's getting touching me or go on everyone.
I'll send you the links through, but it's also on all my social medias, mate.
I put it, I put links to all sorts of fun doing on there.
Um, yeah, you just go on all the way and it gets to it next black four or five days.
What I'm sending.
Fantastic.
I'll tell you what we'll do guys.
Um, for every t-shirt you buy off Joel, I'll throw in a beanie as well.
I'll throw in a winter beanie.
Give him a little push on it as well.
So yeah, listen, Joel, thanks again, buddy for coming on.
I really appreciate it.
It's been fantastic.
And, um, on behalf of myself and trial talk, big forms up to yourself.
And can we get you back on again?
Yeah, of course, man.
Anytime we do, we'll start doing a monthly if you want.
Yeah.
I'll have my bags packed, mate.
I told, I told the misses I'm doing a, doing another live tonight.
She's like, another one.
It wouldn't work, mate.
Listen, you take care, mate, and I'll catch you on the next one.
All right, everyone.
Take it easy, eh?
All the best, mate.
I'll see you later.
Thank you.